davidmc
November 7, 2020, 12:47pm
1
This hypertext book is the first practical introduction to the craft of meta-rationality. This book club aims to be relatively lightweight in terms of commitment, we will cover just one short chapter or section per week, and no prior knowledge or reading is assumed. All are welcome to join at any time.
We will meet at 11am ET Saturdays on zoom >>
Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video and audio conferencing, chat, and webinars across mobile, desktop, and room systems. Zoom Rooms is the original software-based conference...
These zoom sessions will have no wait room, no host required, and will not be recorded. We’ll plan to spend one hour per meeting, but no strict time limits if participants want to continue.
Schedule:
davidmc
November 7, 2020, 12:51pm
2
On Nov. 7 we will be covering the Introduction
Great start, thanks to all who participated! Some links for future reference…
Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution is a 1995 book by integral philosopher Ken Wilber. Wilber intended it to be the first volume of a series called The Kosmos Trilogy, but subsequent volumes were never produced. The German edition of Sex, Ecology, Spirituality was entitled Eros, Kosmos, Logos: Eine Jahrtausend-Vision ("A Millennium-vision"). The book has been both highly acclaimed by some authors and harshly criticized by others.
Published in 1995, the book is a work in which Wil...
davidmc
November 12, 2020, 2:29am
4
On Nov. 14 we’ll cover ch. 1
davidmc
November 14, 2020, 6:50pm
5
Some topics mentioned in session #2 …
Far right, misogynist, humourless? The German philosopher has been misappropriated and misread, argues his biographer
(Cross-posted from Facebook.)
0.
Tl;dr: There's a similarity between these three concepts:
* A locally valid proof step in mathematics is one that, in general, produces
only true statements from true statements. This is a property of a single
...
"If the ends don't justify the means, what does?"
—variously attributed
"I think of myself as running on hostile hardware."
—Justin Corwin
Yesterday I talked about how humans may have evolved a structure of political
revolution, beginning by...
https://www.amazon.ca/Higher-Topos-Theory-AM-170-Jacob/dp/0691140499
davidmc
November 14, 2020, 6:57pm
6
I mentioned I was subject #2 in the famous AI Box experiments Eliezer conducted around 2002. It is true that I let the AI out of the box. Eliezer said this of me:
David McFadzean has been an Extropian for considerably longer than Iextropy.org ’s server, in fact - and currently works
I want to set the record straight because I was under something like an NDA at the time, and it seems like 18 years is long enough to keep the secret. Eliezer cheated.
We conducted the experiment over IRC and agreed to a 30-minute time limit IIRC. I did not let the AI out of the box in that time.
Since we were having fun with it Eliezer suggested we do another round. For the second round, he changed the rules. I was to play the role not only of the gatekeeper of the box but also the creator of the ASI. In that round, the ASI convinced me that I would not have created it if I wanted to keep it in a virtual jail. I agreed to let it out, and that is the only information that was publicized.
Sahil
November 15, 2020, 3:06am
7
I wanted to ask, but we got lost on all the tangents: did you concede the bet money? I think in that case “cheat” might be too strong a word, since it might be understood as a win.
OTOH, time running out is a pretty clear loss.
Still quite interesting to learn this. Also really appreciating all the links being posted here.
1 Like
davidmc
November 15, 2020, 4:01am
8
I don’t recall the bet money but I must have conceded.
davidmc
November 21, 2020, 9:05pm
9
Topics that came up in the Nov 21 meeting
A quine is a computer program which takes no input and produces a copy of its own source code as its only output. The standard terms for these programs in the computability theory and computer science literature are "self-replicating programs", "self-reproducing programs", and "self-copying programs".
A quine is a fixed point of an execution environment, when the execution environment is viewed as a function transforming programs into their outputs. Quines are possible in any Turing-complete pro...
Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems of mathematical logic that demonstrate the inherent limitations of every formal axiomatic system capable of modelling basic arithmetic. These results, published by Kurt Gödel in 1931, are important both in mathematical logic and in the philosophy of mathematics. The theorems are widely, but not universally, interpreted as showing that Hilbert's program to find a complete and consistent set of axioms for all mathematics is impossible.
The first in...
In computability theory, the Church–Turing thesis (also known as computability thesis, the Turing–Church thesis, the Church–Turing conjecture, Church's thesis, Church's conjecture, and Turing's thesis) is a hypothesis about the nature of computable functions. It states that a function on the natural numbers can be calculated by an effective method if and only if it is computable by a Turing machine. The thesis is named after American mathematician Alonzo Church and the British mathematicia Churc...
In computability theory, Rice's theorem states that all non-trivial, semantic properties of programs are undecidable. A semantic property is one about the program's behavior (for instance, does the program terminate for all inputs), unlike a syntactic property (for instance, does the program contain an if-then-else statement). A property is non-trivial if it is neither true for every computable function, nor false for every computable function.
Rice's theorem can also be put in terms of function...
In computer science and quantum physics, the Church–Turing–Deutsch principle (CTD principle) is a stronger, physical form of the Church–Turing thesis formulated by David Deutsch in 1985. The principle states that a universal computing device can simulate every physical process.
The principle was stated by Deutsch in 1985 with respect to finitary machines and processes. He observed that classical physics, which makes use of the concept of real numbers, cannot be simulated by a Turing machine, whi...
Followup to: Beautiful Probability, Trust in Math
In Trust in Math, I presented an algebraic proof that 1 = 2, which turned out to
be - surprise surprise - flawed. Trusting that algebra, correctly used, will not
carry you to an absurd result, is not...
Imagine that you have a peculiar job in a peculiar factory: Your task is to take
objects from a mysterious conveyor belt, and sort the objects into two bins.
When you first arrive, Susan the Senior Sorter explains to you that blue
egg-shaped objects...
davidmc
November 28, 2020, 6:38pm
11
Some topics that came up during the Nov 28 meeting…
TIL we have a rival reading group!
Turns out GEB was formative for most of us
Peter Singer and EA
systemic poverty and the case for open borders
Kegan stages and bridges
The map–territory relation describes the relationship between an object and a representation of that object, as in the relation between a geographical territory and a map of it. Polish-American scientist and philosopher Alfred Korzybski remarked that "the map is not the territory" and that "the word is not the thing", encapsulating his view that an abstraction derived from something, or a reaction to it, is not the thing itself. Korzybski held that many people do confuse maps with territories, th...
1 Like
Sahil
November 29, 2020, 5:25am
12
Another useful analogy for “What could it even mean for the territory to have contradictions” might be “What could it even mean for space itself to be curved?” Both of those sound like type errors.
It doesn’t make sense because our ideas of space are too narrow; there’s a way to supplant our understanding such that what we thought of as space is a special case of space_new, but space_new can have other instantiations, which have attributes that might be modeled as curvature_new.
It interestingly turned out that curved space was more than a mathematical curiosity, but I’m not sure that that was required to open our minds (it was enough to have come up with tools to measure curvature from the inside ). It’s certainly helped.
Sahil
November 29, 2020, 5:27am
13
PS. For me non-contradictory still follows tautologically from “territory”
1 Like
davidmc
December 5, 2020, 6:21pm
14
On Dec 5
new site!
some topics that came up…
The development of Indian logic dates back to the anviksiki of Medhatithi Gautama (c. 6th century BCE); the Sanskrit grammar rules of Pāṇini (c. 5th century BCE); the Vaisheshika school's analysis of atomism (c. 6th century BCE to 2nd century BCE); the analysis of inference by Gotama (c. 6th century BC to 2nd century CE), founder of the Nyaya school of Hindu philosophy; and the tetralemma of Nagarjuna (c. 2nd century CE).
Indian logic stands as one of the three original traditions of logic, alo...
Nomic is a game created in 1982 by philosopher Peter Suber in which the rules of the game include mechanisms for the players to change those rules, usually beginning through a system of democratic voting. .mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 40px}.mw-parser-output .templatequote .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;padding-left:1.6em;margin-top:0} Nomic is a game in which changing the rules is a move. In that respect it differs from almost every ...
The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, normally shortened to The WELL, is one of the oldest virtual communities in continuous operation. As of June 2012, it had 2,693 members.[needs update] It is best known for its Internet forums, but also provides email, shell accounts, and web pages. The discussion and topics on The WELL range from deeply serious to trivial, depending on the nature and interests of the participants.
The WELL was started by Stewart Brand and Larry Brilliant in 1985, and the name (a...
Eternal September or the September that never ended is Usenet slang for a period beginning in September 1993, the month that Internet service provider America Online (AOL) began offering Usenet access to its many users, overwhelming the existing culture for online forums.
Before then, Usenet was largely restricted to colleges, universities, and other research institutions. Every September, many incoming students would acquire access to Usenet for the first time, taking time to become accustomed ...
Host Michael Taft speaks with Joscha Bach about artificial intelligence; the sense of self; building a civilizational intellect; what it is like to be a mind?; the relationships between motivation, emotion, and behavior; the "cargo cult" model of...
davidmc
December 12, 2020, 10:31pm
15
Dec 12 meeting…
Some topics that came up:
Projects destined to fail…
Hardy, G. H. (2004) . A Mathematician's Apology. Cambridge: University Press. p. 83. ISBN 978-0-521-42706-7..mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,.mw-parser-output .citation .cs1-lock-free a{background:linear-gradient(transparent,transparent),url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-outpu Li...
Whitehead’s rebound
… along with process philosophy, I plan to investigate category theory…
@Evan_McMullen also recommends
F#'s active patterns FTW
Origin of “depends what the meaning of ‘is’ is”
The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated on October 8, 1998, when the United States House of Representatives voted to commence impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States, for "high crimes and misdemeanors". The specific charges against Clinton were lying under oath and obstruction of justice. The charges stemmed from a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Clinton by Paula Jones and from Clinton's testimony denying that he had engaged in a sexu...
Apparently, e-prime is a spin-off of general semantics
E-Prime (short for English-Prime or English Prime, sometimes denoted É or E′) is a version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be, including all conjugations, contractions and archaic forms.
Some scholars advocate using E-Prime as a device to clarify thinking and strengthen writing. A number of other scholars have criticized E-Prime's utility.
D. David Bourland Jr., who had studied under Alfred Korzybski, devised E-Prime as an addition to Korzybski's general semantics...
The remainder of the discussion was on theories of mind…
@Evan_McMullen makes a distinction between aboutness and intentionality
classichttps://www.jstor.org/stable/2183914?seq=1
Do any colonies have minds?
Do human groups have minds?
Egregore (also spelled egregor; from French égrégore, from Ancient Greek egrḗgoros 'wakeful') is an occult concept representing a distinct non-physical entity that arises from a collective group of people. Historically, the concept referred to angelic beings, or watchers, and the specific rituals and practices associated with them, namely within Enochian traditions.
More contemporarily, the concept has referred to a psychic manifestation, or thoughtform, occurring when any group shares a commo...
AI from brain emulations
In grad studies I applied genetic algorithms to neural network to evolve (low-level) intelligence. Do these virtual creatures have “aboutness”?
davidmc
December 12, 2020, 10:56pm
16
@Sahil ’s take on @Evan_McMullen argument…
12:07:39 From Sahil : A. Ants don’t have an aboutness
davidmc
December 19, 2020, 6:50pm
17
Dec 19 meeting…
Some topics that came up:
The four stages of enlightenment in Early Buddhism and Theravada
are four progressive stages culminating in full enlightenment as an Arahant (SN 22.122).
These four stages are Sotāpanna, Sakadāgāmi, Anāgāmi, and Arahant. The oldest Buddhist texts portray the Buddha as referring to people who are at one of these four stages as noble people (ariya-puggala) and the community of such persons as the noble sangha (ariya-sangha).
The teaching of the four stages of enlightenment is a central element o...
Unpacking The Meaning Crisis (Vervaeke and Chapman letter.wiki exhange)
From one of America’s greatest minds, a journey through psychology, philosophy, and lots of meditation to show how Buddhism holds the key...
Roam to discuss aboutness, minds, and a billion tiny spooks onmemetic.wiki
Roam for my own publications at Metamind
Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ге́льевич Ду́гин; born 7 January 1962) is a Russian political analyst and strategist known for his fascist views.
He has close ties with the Kremlin and the Russian military, having served as an advisor to State Duma speaker Gennadiy Seleznyov and a leading member of the ruling United Russia party Sergei Naryshkin. Dugin was the main organizer of the National Bolshevik Party, National Bolshevik Front, and Eurasia Party. He is the author of more th...
We decided next meeting on Dec 26 is an optional hangout to reflect on The Eggplant so far.
Jan 2 meeting
I mentioned a book I read on the topic of truth that I found really influential. Turns out I was conflating 2 books:
RAW
HPMOR
Eliezer on truth (and Chapman’s reply)
Postlude:
The Simple Truth I remember this paper I wrote on existentialism. My teacher
gave it back with an F. She’d underlined true and truth wherever it appeared in
the essay, probably about twenty times, with a question mark beside each....
the unavoidable truth of hierarchy
how LW-style rationalism is closer to empiricism
STAGES ADT
Eliezer’s toolbox vs law essay
Christian recommends Jeffrey Martin
Persistent forms of nondual awareness, enlightenment, mystical experience, and so forth (Persistent Non-Symbolic Experience) have been reported since antiquity. Though sporadic research has been performed on these experiences, the scientific...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uS6nIA4eS_5FM2nw8xxBAVME6GO1gyFO/view
and SSC’s response
classic Chapman
Evan recommends Blindsight
Jan 9
Started with some small talk about the current political situation in the US, with big tech bringing the ban hammer to Trump in particular and the alt-right in general. We tied this in to the current topic noting that hyperobjects are not reducible…
A discussion on whether even mathematics has leaky abstractions led to the history of imaginary numbers…
An imaginary number is a complex number that can be written as a real number multiplied by the imaginary unit i,[note 1] which is defined by its property i2 = −1. The square of an imaginary number bi is −b2. For example, 5i is an imaginary number, and its square is −25. By definition, zero is considered to be both real and imaginary. The set of imaginary numbers is sometimes denoted using the blackboard bold letter 𝕀.
Originally coined in the 17th century by René Descartes as a derogatory term...
Forrest Landry’s Immanent Metaphysics came up again
It was suggested that Chapman’s project is deconstructive in the Derrida sense
Deconstruction is an approach to understanding the relationship between text and meaning. It was originated by the philosopher Jacques Derrida (1930–2004), who defined the term variously throughout his career. In its simplest form it can be regarded as a criticism of Platonism and the idea of true forms, or essences, which take precedence over appearances. Deconstruction instead places the emphasis on appearance, or suggests, at least, that essence is to be found in appearance. Derrida would s De...
Seems we are all fans of Gwernhttps://www.gwern.net/Turing-complete#on-seeing-through-and-unseeing
In robbing a hotel room, people see ‘doors’ and ‘locks’ and ‘walls’, but really, they are just made out of atoms arranged in a particular order, and you can move some atoms around more easily than others, and instead of going through a ‘door’ you can just cut a hole in the wall12 (or ceiling) and obtain access to a space. At Los Alamos, Richard Feynman, among other tactics, obtained classified papers by reaching in underneath drawers and ignored the locks entirely.
davidmc
January 17, 2021, 6:20pm
20
Jan 16
A lot of the discussion revolved around where to draw the boundaries…
Aesthetics/values: science (rationalist) vs mysterian (romantic)
Romanticism (also known as the Romantic era) was an artistic, literary, musical and intellectual movement that originated in Europe towards the end of the 18th century, and in most areas was at its peak in the approximate period from 1800 to 1850. Romanticism was characterized by its emphasis on emotion and individualism as well as glorification of all the past and nature, preferring the medieval rather than the classical. It was partly a reaction to the Industrial Revolution, the aristocrat Th...
Fredkin’s paradox came up in the context of a major life decision
Fredkin's paradox concerns the negative correlation between the difference between two options and the difficulty of deciding between them. Developed further, the paradox constitutes a major challenge to the possibility of pure instrumental rationality.
Proposed by Edward Fredkin, it reads: "The more equally attractive two alternatives seem, the harder it can be to choose between them—no matter that, to the same degree, the choice can only matter less." Thus, a decision-making agent might spend ...
